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Ganker
Community-driven video game blog & discussion
Posted on by Anonymous
How does it feel to you, that TES and Fallout will never be as good as they used to be, only catering to casuals and the action-adventure fans crowd?
That TES will never be as good as Daggerfall or Morrowind again?
That Fallout will never be as good as 1, 2 or NV again?
- Anonymous
1 month ago
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>Low quality garbage thread made by a Wojaker
Not even a surprise at this point. - Anonymous
1 month ago
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I'll always have Morrowind, the modding scene is more alive than ever
- Anonymous
1 month ago
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Tamriel Rebuilt and Project Tamriel are more canon than anything Bethesda has done since Oblivion
- Anonymous
1 month ago
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I'm sad the hide thread guy didn't show up yet.
These series were always garbage.
Tamriel Rebuilt and Project Tamriel are more canon than anything Bethesda has done since Oblivion
This may come as shock to you, but reeeeeeeeeeing about Todd isn't nearly as worthy of your time as you think
- Anonymous
1 month ago
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This, I've been playing it multiplayer for a while now. Lot of fun
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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is the expansion translated yet? i heard its pretty fun and actually makes use of spanish literacy
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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There's a playable translation on github.
- Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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Morrowind was never a true deep rpg.
- Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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There's no such thing as a hardcore rpg. People just figure out how to min max and it's the same as anything else.
- Anonymous
1 month ago
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These series were always garbage.
- Anonymous
1 month ago
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I don't really care because all long running franchises are sh*t now, not just Bethesda's.
- Anonymous
1 month ago
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>“Il meglio è l'inimico del bene
Can't even name your imaginary perfect rpg in your own meme because that would be too much for your superiority fantasy to bear when we dismantle it. - Anonymous
1 month ago
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>waahh i don't enjoy these games
Oh you poor baby. Get a life. - Anonymous
1 month ago
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Wrest free your heart of this burden not yours to bear.
Look to the games that have brought you mirth, and have joy of them instead.
Otherwise you'll only wallow in woe and misery- Anonymous
1 month ago
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>Wrest free your heart of this burden not yours to bear.
>Look to the games that have brought you mirth, and have joy of them instead.
>Otherwise you'll only wallow in woe and misery
Extremely based. I kneel.
- Anonymous
1 month ago
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It literally said “Remember Wasteland?” on the box. It was always a homage. Don’t be stupid.
- Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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>creative bankruptcy
>b-bUt iT wAs A hOmAgE- Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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>t. too young to know A Boy And His Dog
- Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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Love it, I didn't know about wasteland until recently and now I'm playing wasteland 1, plan on playing all of them.
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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>everything they love about gayout is lifted directly from Wasteland
>posts a video where the game director literally admits that it's not the case, most of the team behind Fallout haven't played Wasteland and it was supposed to be more of a spiritual successorAlso most normies love Fallout for the nu-fallout aesthetic mostly introduced by Bethesda in Fallout 4, which have little to do with Fallout 1 and absolutely nothing to do with Wasteland 1.
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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Learn 2 greentext and Tim said that he wasn't sure whether the devs copied it directly from Wasteland in the video, even if it's pretty clear that they did, not that the team didn't play it. But, go on, continue defending your sh*tty troony infested series.
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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This argument reminds me of the time I went to the band of brothers Reddit page. People are arguing about drama from 70 years ago because they are so desperate for a scrape of anything related to a show they liked. This taught me that every fandom eventually eats itself. Like why are we concerned about fallout and wasteland and what was influenced by what. It’s bizarre
- Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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Pretty good. Fallout and TES have the most obnoxious fanbases ever. Let these hom*osexuals suffer.
- Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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they've both been pretty dumbed down since brotherhood of steel and morrowind. the real solution is to get off your high horse and learn to enjoy casual games
- Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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BOS was terrible on all levels, it is the only game on which true Fallout fans and Bethesdrones agree. It is not even a RPG.
And while Morrowind was indeed the catalyst for the dumbing down of the series, it actually added as much as it down sized.
> Missing language skills? Here's Command/Charm/Frenzy/Demoralize.
> Missing Thaumaturgy? Here's Alchemy and Enchant that you can do yourself, without relying on an NPC if you have the right tools and ability.
> Missing Flails? Here's Spears, Halberds, and Throwing Weapons!
> Missing the absolutely ridiculously awesome size? Now everything's extraordinarily detailed (still the most detailing per cell in the series).
> Missing the randomized quests? Here's 427 hand-written quests.So while it did pave the way for the newer, vastly inferior games, it is still on par with older, more sophisticated games such as Daggerfall, despite the radical changes (it kept the "spirit" of them if that makes sense). Morrowind was still a hardcore RPG with lots of character building and abilities available and huge content density, while also having a unique and exotic world.
- Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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>sophisticated games such as Daggerfall
>sophisticated
>dumbing down
>hardcore RPG
le rpg enthusiast - Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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>daggerfall
>sophisticated
daggerfall was temple run for boomers. No amount of coping and seething will ever change that - Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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calling morrowind a hardcore rpg should be a bannable offense
- Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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Morrowind was never a true deep rpg.
>skytroonys pretending to be “le angry oldgay” again.
Don’t you ever get tired?- Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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>brings up skyrim and trannies unprompted
rent free - Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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Only played like 50hs of vanilla skyrim and never even completed the main quest. I'm an Underrail enjoyer, so I know what a really complex and deep rpg can be. And the baby first rpg morrowind for sure doesn't fit in that category. "What if we add a lot of stats and skills but half of them are almost useless or have one single very specific use, just to make it look like our game is actually deep"
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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You're stupid. Get real and think about it logically because Todd Howard wanted Starfield to fail on purpose he wants to fabricate a redemption comeback legacy for himself when TES 6 is over 1,000 times superior to it. He made Starfield as atrocious as possible for a reason this was certainly no accident come on now how can you guys possibley argue TES 6 will fail when it is mathmatically impossible to be inferior to Starfield? TES 6 will probably be universally considered the Game of the Century imo
Nice cope milk drinker
I don't care. TES was never good and there are plenty of games inspired by the orginal fallout so bethesda can keep pumping out slop for all I care.
HOLY COPE!
Honestly it feels great to see these awful series die, this decade has been simply wondrous in that regard, and every time I am reminded it puts me in an excellent mood and gives me hope for the future. I hope people like you will finally realize you never liked video games and leave this hobby alone.
Wtf. Did you torture baby animals when you were a child? Why are you always such an actively disagreeable mean-spirited butthole in every single post you ever make here? Are you having difficulty coping with having a tiny 2 centimeter wiener so re-direct your rage at our RPG board? Did your mom get you checked for autism? Maybe you're just mad because you found out you're transgender? What the hell do you actually get out of telling us all that our favorite RPGs are hot garbage and we're subhuman scum for enjoying them? I've never seen you say even one nice thing about anybody or any thing or any RPG or any etc ever. Why are you like this? Jfc wtf do you even want out of life anon?
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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>And while Morrowind was indeed the catalyst for the dumbing down of the series
I never understood this claim that morrowind is the dumbing down of the TES games. Morrowind is a huge step up from Daggerfall.Daggerfall has the appearance of both width and depth on the surface but when you hop into it it's like an ocean the depth of a puddle. While Morrowind was more like a puddle the depth of an ocean.
There's an absolute frickton of "mechanics" but when you get down to it they're all half-baked, half-implemented, or insignificant. It's just an illusion so it's not really fair to say that Morrowind is dumbed down. They just realized that a small core group of more fleshed out mechanics, places, and quests is far more enjoyable than a huge amount of shallow randomly generated content mixed in with bare bones gameplay. Like even out of your examples,
>language is only used for % chance to pacify creatures
>thaum we got all the spells in other classes in morrowind anyways
>weapon choice in daggerfall is mostly aesthetic anyways
>frick huge size doesn't mean sh*t, on DOS df looked the same just about anywhere you went cause of how the original engine rendered terrain
>also who gives a frick about having 30 different factions/guilds if they all look and feel the same and give the same 5 variations of the same exact randomly generated quests to go to the same look alike dungeons
Daggerfall was great for its time but really has aged terribly and I feel like 90% of the impression people have of it online comes exclusively from Daggerfall Unity which is a terrible way to retroactively look back at the series and say that morrowind was "dumbed down" compared to something that came out 20 years after it.- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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>I never understood this claim that morrowind is the dumbing down
The answer is pretty much what you said
>Daggerfall has the appearance
I'm in favor of depth and complexity, and the number of skills says nothing.
- Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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They haven’t become bad games because they were “simplified”. Lots of great retro games are extremely simple.
TES has gotten bad, simply because it’s gotten bad. The writing has gotten worse, the lore has gotten less interesting, music is less memorable, etc. The games overall have simply gotten worse.
- Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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They were never good though?
- Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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>That Fallout will never be as good as 1, 2 or NV again?
NV is a catering to the action adventure crowd, the frick are you talking about? - Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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Imagine still being mad about Morrowind in the year of our Lord 2,024
- Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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I don't care. TES was never good and there are plenty of games inspired by the orginal fallout so bethesda can keep pumping out slop for all I care.
- Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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I'm confident, modders make good stuff and I know there are random russians etc. tinkering with Fallouts and there's already 1.5, Nevada and so on.
Then there's 3/NV/4, Skyrim with big mods, either making base game better or completely changing, it like DUST and FROST, spent many hours on those alone. - Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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tes6 is just going to be a lame elden ring rip-off, you already know
- Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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I wish dude. Bethesda is shockingly bad at melee. Always has been. Even Oblivion, my first Elder Scrolls, I was shocked at the combat. "They want me to just stand here and spam attack for a minute to kill this guy? Uhhh no, time for a mage" And being a made was awful too. Skyrim made it prettier but didn't really fix anything. I'd be shocked if they learn anything from Elden Ring.
- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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Name ONE first person game with good melee combat
you don't have to, cause 1st person and melee combat is a combo doomed to fail and the simple combat Skyrim had is the best it can get- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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For me, it’s Deus Ex
>stick with the prod! - Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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Skyrim combat is relatively good, just potentially completely ruined by unrestricted healing. Or made worse by players trying to do jack of all trades characters. And all possible choices regarding build and equipment muddle up the difficulty anyways.
Imagine the consequences to combat if Dark Souls gave the player unlimited heals. How much weight does getting hit by an enemy have, or combat in general? Probably not enough to put any effort into blocking, dodging, parrying or anything else the player might otherwise consider.
- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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Nta, ELDERBORN has superb first person melee.
- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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>Name ONE first person game with good melee combat
kcd
dark messiah - Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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mount and blade. its not good rpg combat since its so skill-based but its the best melee combat system ive played. a smaller scale game with good combat ai using that system would be great.
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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Morrowind
- Anonymous
1 week ago
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KCD. the combat filtered millions of brownoids, but that just makes it even more enjoyable to play as a white man.
- Anonymous
4 weeks ago
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im not a 30 yo manchild loser obsessed with my own youth so pretty good
- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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New Elder Scrolls and Fallout games are awesome. Sometimes I don't want a deep rpg. Sometimes I just wanna come home from work and shoot/slash things and steal their junk afterward. Stop being a joyless dickhe*d.
- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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So for a mindless "I-just-want-to-turn-off-my-brain" entertainement, you are ready to kill off an entire genre of video games.
- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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>you are ready to kill off an entire genre of video games.
Are you on estrogen pills or something lmao - Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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>So for a mindless "I-just-want-to-turn-off-my-brain" entertainement,
You realize to people who aren't bethesda fans the games you like looks exactly like that to them right - Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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There are other games that aren't fallout or tes moron.
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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They're just not that good..
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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What so good about these two games series that makes you bots so attached?
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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Kek how is it so hard for you to understand? If I said I liked puzzle games, you'd go "okay the dude likes puzzles", but any more nuance than that and you're incapable of understanding different preferences.
- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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I wish kirkbride would just make his own studio with a few OGs.
- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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Kirkbride wrote Immortal of Aveum. This is how you know all these boomers are disingenuous nostalgia-gays. Literally all these creatives that they claim to adore made games after their stint at Bethesda. If they were actually as good as you say, said boomers would adore those games. But instead they ignore them because it turns out, that they were always massively carried by Bethesda's engineers and artists.
Literally nothing will ever be as good as it used to be. It's just the direction western civilisation is taking. Zoomers have ruined everything.
The common denominator is you, anon. You failed at life and externalize your personal issues.
I'm mostly just annoyed we will never get a actual sequel to Morrowind.
Otherwise, don't really care. Fallout ended with New Vegas for me and I'm fine with it.
>I'm mostly just annoyed we will never get a actual sequel to Morrowind.
People who will never get a sequel because they're trapped by nostalgia and never really understood Morrowind in the first place. They got attached to some random metagame nonsense that was never intended to be part of the experience in the first place. In every way that a sane adult can recognize, Oblivion and Skyrim are obvious successors to Morrowind's design philosophy.- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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>Oblivion and Skyrim are obvious successors to Morrowind's design philosophy
Nah, look at how Oblivion replaced most of the hand-placed elements of the world (unique humanoid NPCs with a set level, stat block, name, and inventory, or virtually all of the high-end and useful loot being hand-placed) with generic level-scaled equivalents created from leveled lists. Or how Oblivion stripped down Morrowind's PC interface for an Xbox console interface. Or massively nerfing the magic system and simplifying the skills, which continued even further in Skyrim, including the removal of all stats.Skyrim kinda split the difference and somewhat walked back some of Oblivion's changes (e.g. nerfing enemy scaling into discrete tiers with an eventual limit) but still continued down some of these paths (total stat death).
Honestly I'll always love Morrowind but you have to look at it as a product of its era and accept that the people that made it went down a different road and it'll never happen again. I enjoy Morrowind's lore but I never got the Kirkebride wank and I never gave a sh*t about what he wrote in some forum posts or whatever. The game is what it is, let it stand on its own, appreciate it for what it did right, accept its flaws and faults, and don't pine for some magical sequel game we'll never get. It would never match up to your imagination or your expectations, anyway. Don't meet your heroes, kids.
- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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>look at how Oblivion replaced most of the hand-placed elements of the world (unique humanoid NPCs with a set level, stat block, name, and inventory, or virtually all of the high-end and useful loot being hand-placed) with generic level-scaled equivalents created from leveled lists. Or how Oblivion stripped down Morrowind's PC interface for an Xbox console interface. Or massively nerfing the magic system and simplifying the skills, which continued even further in Skyrim, including the removal of all stats.
Nta but I say meh. Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim are fundamentally the same game still. I think the most striking differences are the reliance on quest markers and Skyrim's perks.I miss levitation and the accuracy stat too, but they ain't a big enough deal to separate Morrowind from the rest.
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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yeah, kirkbride was good when he had a competent tard wrangler to filter his ideas and we will never get morrowind 2 since the gaming landscape has changed so much. we do still have ptr thats adding to morrowind and meets or exceeds vanilla quality (mainly exceeds in terms of quest design while their older world design uses too many cobbled together assets and looks samey and their newer stuff is mostly on par with vanilla but the larger cities arent gimped by 2002 hardware and vanilla gambryo) so ill just enjoy the expansions and hope that more modders join the project. the doors of oblivion mod looks pretty good for the most part and could do with a good quest writer and possibly some asset replacement.
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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>kirkbride was good when he had a competent tard wrangler to filter his ideas
Yes. Many creative types very badly need an editor. See also: George Lucas - Anonymous
1 week ago
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>kirkbride was good when he had a competent tard wrangler to filter his ideas
Yes. Many creative types very badly need an editor. See also: George LucasThis is a meme. Kirkbride was never tardwrangled by other writers. What you think of as his good, more grounded writing was simply writing done by other people entirely.
- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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>You failed at life and externalize your personal issues
The sound of a projecting zoomer. I'm doing fine, thanks. - Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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Where are Ken Rolston, Douglass Goodall, or Kurt Kuhlmann's games?
I didn't play Avernus or whatever because it didn't look interesting and they wanted 60 dollars for it. Unfortunately having a talented writer is only one part of what makes a game good. I can guarantee that if Kirkbride worked on an actual fantasy RPG project I'd be interested tho
- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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Literally nothing will ever be as good as it used to be. It's just the direction western civilisation is taking. Zoomers have ruined everything.
- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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I'm mostly just annoyed we will never get a actual sequel to Morrowind.
Otherwise, don't really care. Fallout ended with New Vegas for me and I'm fine with it.
- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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Surprisingly the best advice i've gotten is to let it go.
Don't get overtly attached to a piece of media that is not cattering to your niche anymore. Go find something that fuffills your needs or if you can, try to make your own game.- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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That’s what I’ve done. Elder Scrolls doesn’t have whites at its core. So it’ll be sh*t. Non whites and women can’t make western rpgs. I now play like 1-2 games a year and have been making my own game for half a year. Way more fulfilling than Bethesda slop.
- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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> let it go.
Don't get overtly attached to a piece of media that is not cattering to your niche anymore. Go find something that fuffills your needs
Wisdom
- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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Honestly it feels great to see these awful series die, this decade has been simply wondrous in that regard, and every time I am reminded it puts me in an excellent mood and gives me hope for the future. I hope people like you will finally realize you never liked video games and leave this hobby alone.
- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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>I hope people like you will finally realize you never liked video games and leave this hobby alone.
What an utterly bizarre thing to say. TESchads do love video games, which is why they seek to utilize unique to video games features. Unlike /tg/gays that seek to downgrade video games them to tabletop level
- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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Who cares? There are other games.
- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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Which ones are like Daggerfall, Morrowind, Fallout 1 and 2 or Fallout NV?
- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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>Daggerfall
Rifts
>Morrowind
MYFAROG
>Fallout 1 and 2
GURPS
>Fallout NV
FATAL
- Anonymous
3 weeks ago
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Conan Exiles looks like a decent cope for TES' death but Funcom or whatever their name is robbed me with Age of Conan so I don't want to give them more money
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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As soon as more game companies release first person open world fantasy rpgs with immersive sim elements, I literally will not give a sh*t anymore. I am a captive, any love I once have has withered on the vine, and what pleasure I do get from the setting exclusively takes the shape of DMing lewd dungeoncrawlers where the waifus of ignorant neckbeards get gangraped by frost trolls and feral ghouls.
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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For fallout it works, I like the dumb postapo vibes, elder scrolls on the other hand is pathetic stripped from the more hardcore RPG elements.
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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Just mod the old games. That’s literally why they came with construction kits, so you can stfu and create your own fun, instead of complaining about it over the internet. Larper
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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I started playing TES: Morrowind for the first time yesterday. Is the beginning supposed to start off slow? My class is a custom one, kind of like a smooth-talking Woof Elf robber, I named the class robber. Thing is, is that I'm still only level 1 and just going around talking, reading and exploring the town of Balmora rn. I joined the fighter's guild, and tried exterminating the rats, but I just keep getting my butthole pummeled. Should I start a new save and do a noob-friendly class/build and race?
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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>smooth-talking Woof Elf robber
>joined the fighter's guild
If you want to start the fighters guild at level one, you could create a warrior character.Or you make some money (try robbery) and buy an enchanted weapon and potions. You can also train your combat skills on animals in the wilderness. Those FG quest rats are a bit beefier than regular rats iirc.
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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Nord, redguard, orc, dark elf are the better options. You'll want endurance, agility and strength to be higher than 30. Pick a class that has the weapons and armor you prefer.
Your stamina affects your chance to hit, so keep the green bar full. Agility affects your chance to hit. Endurance is health. Strength is damage with melee and carrying capacity.
After you get the hang of it, it'll be a smooth ride. Fighters Guilds have a chest with supplies, be sure to take them if you're a member.
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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I recommend OpenMW strongly. With the QoL settings it comes with, I don't need anything else.
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
Sounds good, I am doing that very soon.
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
Dude, thank you for recommending OpenMW to me. I was on the fence about it, but man- it runs much smoother then before, it doesn't crash when I tab out, it had windowed borderless, and I made the UI muuuuch bigger. I no longer have to squint or go close to my screen to read it.
It's pretty slow unless you're very careful with your build. You need about 40 points in a skill for baseline competence. If you're lower than that, then you cannot effectively use weapons or spells in that category. If you didn't take any weapon skills, then you're basically fricked until you can scrounge up enough money to train a weapon enough that you can hit enemies with it.
That said, you CAN pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Avoid fighting and steal things to make money, and haul the money back to the fighter's guild for training. Once you get to a level where you can hit the rats, you can replace your training regimen with actual fighting. Grab the free potions from the Fighter's Guild chest and use those to stay alive.I'm just going to start a new game today. I think I may do a Warrior Nord or Redguard. It seems very noob-friendly.
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
>Warrior Redguard. It seems very noob-friendly.
It was one of my first characters. The Adrenaline Rush power that you can use once a day is very powerful and useful when you encounter a stronger foe.
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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It's pretty slow unless you're very careful with your build. You need about 40 points in a skill for baseline competence. If you're lower than that, then you cannot effectively use weapons or spells in that category. If you didn't take any weapon skills, then you're basically fricked until you can scrounge up enough money to train a weapon enough that you can hit enemies with it.
That said, you CAN pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Avoid fighting and steal things to make money, and haul the money back to the fighter's guild for training. Once you get to a level where you can hit the rats, you can replace your training regimen with actual fighting. Grab the free potions from the Fighter's Guild chest and use those to stay alive.
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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Gaming is the most profitable entertainment industry in the world now. You're never getting anything but focus-group approved, market tested, wide appealing slop ever again from big publishers.
If you want anything with anything else just play indie games. - Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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Guess its time to expand your horizon beyond normalgay RPGs anon...
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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New Vegas is not that complex of an RPG, and dare I say that line - and it's a good thing.
But unlike Bethesda Fallouts New Vegas had writing and worldbuilding that at least tried to be good, coherent, internally consistent. It's not perfect (and Fallout 1 and 2 were not either), but better than what we get in those terms.
Gameplay is another matter, I'd say Skyrim's gameplay is overall better than Morrowind's but it's a preference. - Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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sad !
- Anonymous
2 weeks ago
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Morrowind was good but Bethesda's peak was Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Skyrim.
It's better to think of FO3 & FO4 as spin offs than sequels.
- Anonymous
1 week ago
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Inxile and Obsidian will save Microsoft Fallout.
TES was never a "True, deep RPG" so it can rot.
- Anonymous
1 week ago
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I wouldn't really give a sh*t if we were getting good new original games, but we're stuck with cinematic walking simulators and endless sequels. Eventually it will crash and reset, or AI will finally become an intuitive enough that people with actually good ideas can make games.
- Anonymous
1 week ago
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>people with actually good ideas
In your dreams, bud
- Anonymous
1 week ago
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crpgs will always be a lesser alternative to tabletop.
storygays need not apply.